What About Kosher?

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By Ralf Schumann - Whenever the discussion comes to halal certification, one moral relativist will throw in the red herring: "But what about kosher?!"
what about kosher? Let's go and check the facts.

red_hering head.jpgToday your odds are 3 to 1 that the meat sold in Australia comes from an animal that died at the hands of a male Muslim, who slit the poor creature's throat while dedicating it to his Allah. Your chances with beef are 50:50, however, with chicken, lamb or goat it is now close to 100%. Most meat today comes from halal-certified abattoirs and usually remains unlabelled at point of sale. If you doubt the numbers, ask your butcher, or write to the Australian Meat Industry Council.

Now go shopping and try to buy some certified kosher meat at your local butcher or supermarket. Let me know how it went, please. This is usually the point where moral relativism collapses and the red herring reeks of hypocrisy: In reality there is no comparing the certification of kosher with halal.

The process to produce kosher meat is different and considerably more complex compared to halal. Kosher certification is neither a protection-style racket that sprung up only three decades ago, nor is kosher certification designed to globally extract billions of dollars from unsuspecting consumers. Kosher certification serves the tiny number of observant Jews, sold at prohibitive prices in a few specialty shops, or specially marked sections of a handful of supermarkets.

Aside from meat, you may come across some other products with a kosher label. Yes, THEY COME WITH A LABEL - and you can identify the product and choose whether to buy, or not to buy. This is in contrast to most halal-certified products. By now many halal-certified companies prefer to hide this fact from local consumers. Paying protection money to business-savvy Islamic groups for the 'privilege' to continue selling into Islamic markets is going out of fashion with many Australian consumers. Shame on you if you just thought of Al Capone and Bugsy Moran.

Next let's talk numbers: There are maybe 100,000 Jewish people in Australia and 14 million in the world. Not every Jew is observant and buys certified kosher food. According to the 2000 National Jewish Population Survey (NJPS), 21% of American Jews report that they keep kosher in the home.

Assuming the situation is similar here, the Australian market for certified kosher food would be no greater than 21,000 consumers. Judaism is not a proselyting religion and the numbers are fairly steady. In contrast Islam is actively seeking converts with feudal Islamic regimes and Islamic NGOs pouring billions of your petrol and halal certification dollars into a myriad of promotional activities, mosques and Koran schools.



Depending on who you believe, there are now between 1.2 and 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. We have an estimated 600,000 Muslims in Australia, growing at a disproportional rate. Halal certifiers want suppliers to believe that the market for halal-certified products and services is worth trillions of dollars, growing at a rapid rate. Also, halal certifiers want their cut from every stage of the supply chain: From the farm and feed producers to the abattoir, the processors, the producer of spices and ingredients, the trucking company, the supermarket and all the way to the shopping bag at the check-out. Plus the bank that finances the farmer and everyone in the supply chain better be sharia-compliant as well.

Finally, if you are concerned what happens with the extra money the producers pay for Halal or Kosher certification, there are some obvious facts to keep in mind: There haven't been many orthodox Jews flying passenger jets into office buildings shouting "YHWH is the Greatest!" ASIO has little concern about Jewish suicide bombers blowing up trains, buses and restaurants. New synagogues are not popping up in every suburb and country town like mushrooms after a warm summer rain. There is no standing order in the Torah to convert, subjugate or kill non-Jews and to turn the whole world into a 7th century Rabbinical theocracy. To the contrary, wherever the Jewish people have settled, science, economy, medicine and the arts have flourished. In Judaism there is no death penalty for quitters and in most Jewish families, it's usually the woman (singular) who tells you what to do, and when.

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So give me a Kosher-certified jar of pickled red herrings any day. But if I see a "Certified Halal" sign on the label, or read on your company website that you submitted to the Islamic protection rackets, you can stick that red herring where the sun don't shine.

Let's not forget that only a few years ago, before the invention of these Islamic protection rackets, Australian products were sold 'as is' into Islamic markets. Nothing has changed: Observant Muslims can still read the labels and the Koran hasn't altered the rules for what is haram in the past 1,300 years.


It is important to understand the basic principle of Islamic dietary rules: If it is not explicitly forbidden (i.e. declared Haram), it is allowed. Anyone who puts himself above this principle and suggests that only what he or his 'authority' declares halal is permissable to eat, places himself next to or even above Allah in judgement. This is no place a pious Muslim would normally want to find himself in. See the following Friday sermon from Imam Shaykh Habib Bewley for more a more scholarly interpretation of the dietary rules according to the relevant scriptures and interpretations: The Halal Certification Fiasco


Let's be perfectly clear: Most of what we produce here in Australia is naturally Halal - by default permissible to eat by Muslims 'as is' and no certificate or payment of a permit is required. Even chicken, lamb and beef slaughtered by non-Muslims can be eaten by Muslims without risking hellfire, simply by saying a blessing over the food before eating (see Hadith Al Bukhari 3:273)

Q Society of Australia has developed three fair and simple policy proposals in relation to Halal certification in Australia. The newly launching political party Australian Liberty Alliance will take these three policies to the next federal election:


1. Apply the 'User Pays' Principle


If observant Muslims insist on special rituals and halal certification for their food, then Islamic community organisations should provide these services and cover the fees and extra expenses for our suppliers. Religion is always a contentious issue and should never be imposed onto others.


2. Insist On Clear Labelling


All products and services from halal-certified suppliers should be clearly labelled by one standard symbol. This way the consumer can recognise when products and services come from halal-certified sources. Australians can then make a conscious decision. Certification fees are paid from general revenue before taxes, so whatever product or service you buy from a halal-certified company, in a small way you contribute to the spread of Islam and minimise the tax-contribution for the ATO.

3. End Workplace Discrimination


In halal-certified abattoirs only Muslim males can now find employment as slaughterers. Non-Muslims and women are considered Haram - unclean. This is overt sharia law, manifest in discrimination on gender and religious grounds, and applied with full consent of Australian government agencies AQIS and DAFF. However, we understand that ritually prepared meat is important to deeply religious Australians. To this end we propose that, similar to religious schools for which Australia permits some exemptions from non-discrimination laws, abattoirs wishing to conduct ritual slaughter must be owned and operated by an accredited religious organisation.




Further Reading:













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Exellent explanation. This liberal idiots and greedy food manufacturers gone too far. But yet I hope that more people become aware of this problem, start boycotting food manufacturers and switch to genuine Australian food products.And I for sure put my hand to it. From concerned Jew and Kosher consumer.

Thank you for a really informative article .The one question I have is this: after all the dust is settled and all the facts are in place the truth is that halalcertification is legally enshrined in australian law the muzzies the govt and thankfully more and more australians are realising how we are being ripped off; The only way I can see anything happening is for the govt to change the law so that muzzies lose their tax free relgious status and haveto declare their income from halal certification

Great article Ralf - but identification should be direct - in clear english - no indirect symbol that people dont even look at or understand ( most don't even know what halal means or its small symbol on cadburys chocolates - so I suggest "this product is muslim (or islamic) halal certified".
Another point its only our fed members of parliament that can change our laws so we have to one or some of them to sponsor a private members bill to get it on the books and we have to willing people in every electorate to lobby them with our message ( short - not pages)on reasons to vote for it. Kev.

Thank you for clarifying the often misunderstood difference. I am totally in agreement with your analysis. The bottom line is; the Jewish community is exclusively supporting the Kosher certification, of whether all of us, Australian citizens are forced to subsidise the Islamic causes which we are not part off.

The policy proposal does not suggest a particular logo, but demands clear labelling by one standard symbol. The reason we have this formal petition to parliament going is to encourage exactly what you rightly propose. It just needs a few thousand more signatures.

Like many exposés, this subject will peak the interest of those who are interested ie those of us who see what is happening, and who agree that Islam poses a real threat. However, unfortunately, the other 98% of society will “oh” and “ah” for all of ten minutes, then they will be distracted by the next spoon-fed snippet of news. I’m not being negative here (intentionally) but there must be a coordinated push by all of us who want to actually make a difference. Apathy is so very rife, especially given our busy lives today, and we are so bombarded with a glut of news each day; so much so that it is too much to ask that we expect each and every item to be crusaded by all who read or hear about it.

I believe, strongly, that the threat of Islam is real. I have seen it first hand, and I have seen local towns and villages consumed by its poison. (UK), but for many people, and especially in Australia, it is not something they know much about. They have not yet seen the aftermath of riots in the streets and blood running into the gutters. They have not seen their people, soldiers at that, hacked to death in their own towns, and in the capitol city no less. They have not seen trains and busses blown to pieces, full of innocent people minding their own business. They have not seen hundreds of local under-aged girls forced into having sex, raped repeatedly, by gangs of Pakistani men, because social services were more afraid of being seen as “un-PC” and saying what they knew was the truth, than actually protecting the children in their care. They have not seen their soldiers spat upon as they return home from service, bloodied and battle weary. I could go on. My point being, when you are far away from all of this, it is so easy to disassociate yourself from such matters. It is also easy to take the moral high ground and leap to the defence of “ordinary” Muslims, who “obviously” have nothing to do with any of this. Interestingly, cowards oft take this approach, when they see that the road of truth, righteousness and self-sacrifice is difficult, but jumping on the bandwagon of “safety in numbers”, and “PC correctness” is all too easy. Yes, it is an easy score, lots of votes and lots of back-patting. However, it takes guts and grit to actually stand tall amongst the sea of bowing apologists. To place yourself in the line of fire, when most around you are ducking for cover. Well in my book, as far as I am concerned, these who dare stand tall are the people I want to have beside me. These are the people I would want with me in a crisis. These are the people who do take time out of their busy schedules, to try and make a difference. To try and make sure that the rest of us are well informed, and have information. Information which we may, and should make good use of. Hopefully then, we should feel it our duty to voice our own opinion, and make ourselves heard.

There is no shame in telling the truth. There is no racism in showing videos that portray the agendas of those you disagree with. There is no “phobia” in exposing the lies and double standards of those who would use any and every avenue open to them to destroy your country, your way of life, your very existence.
The current topic of ‘Halal’ in our food industry, highlights but one of the many tentacles Islam uses to probe its way into our society, whether we want it or not. Remember, we didn’t ask for it, so why the hell should we accept it? We had laws in place for the protection of undue cruelty of animals when they are to be killed for our consumption. Why does so-called religion have special privilege to deviate from these laws?, but more importantly, why do the rest of us have to suffer in the knowledge that this is taking place, and almost covertly, to the point where we all have become a part of this sickening practise, albeit unknowingly!

If that wasn’t enough to make you physically sick, then maybe the knowledge that the ‘Halal’ prepared meat you are now almost certainly eating, is in part, known to have connections with Islamic terrorist groups, and maybe even help funding them. The next time you see a beheading on the news or a school being blown up, just think, that last pack of burgers you bought, or the day at your mates BBQ could have helped funded that…. Far stretch?, no not really. Its just the truth.

If you have read this so far, then at least you are capable of understanding this. Do yourself a favour and take the next step; make your voice heard. Tell your friends, contact the local radio station, the supermarkets, do as much as you think you can, but don’t be a sheep, don’t be told what to eat, what to accept…. Take control and make yourself count for something!

Do a google search of Eid al Fitr and be appalled at the wanton cruelty of this blood lust festival.

Well done Kiwi.
Maybe it's time NZ land had Q Society branch !!

We've been trying this for some time, but it seems in the whole of NZ there aren't five lads and lasses with the guts and glory to get together and launch a QSOCNZ. Can't do more than offer our help amd fly over for a launch event.

Let's talk !
KW (NZ) you interested ?

I've just moved to NZ from Oz. Keen to know if the same mass deception is going on here? Andrew

I've just moved to NZ from Oz. Keen to know if the same mass deception is going on here? Andrew

You are right in every word KW. That is what Q society should do, I suggest that they can get help from some volunteers to set a table in every capital city to inform the public about these halal matters, I see that in Melbourne every Saturday from the socialists to collect signatures against Tony Albert and the librals, so why not us.

Maybee we should have a chat. I'm happy to & KW may be interested ??. I'm also happy to visit Melbourne /Sydney if needs be !

in reply to Qwire's comment...
Yes, I have noticed that Kiwi’s are especially apathetic about this (and most things) generally speaking, that is unless it effects them directly, and right at this very moment. Their outlook can be very ‘live for the moment’ and dam tomorrow. That’s great, but it doesn’t look out for subsequent generations unfortunately. I know that this is generalising, and of course it isnt the case for everyone, or indeed every subject, however, I feel that “Islam” would take a back seat to cost of a new fishing boat, price of beer, tickets to a rugby game etc…. I did try and talk about the Islam problem with a few friends we had around one evening. Even though I trod carefully and tried to gently inform (as opposed to preach), I was shot down with a “we like to let live, and leave people to do their own thing”… and, “Kiwis are known for being openly multicultural, and we have no issue with anyone or any religion…” etc. In fact I felt that I had been politely told to shut up and don’t be racist, if you know what I mean. The funny thing is mind, the same person wasn’t so “Islam friendly” it seemed, when we caught up just after the Sydney Café incident!
This shows how quick people are to shoot the messenger, and not wanting to even socially discus such matters, until something dreadful happens which forces them to see the elephant in the room. Very sad, and very demoralising when you are just trying to get people to view the evidence and make up their own mind. Also, I think the whole subject is just too complicated for many folk (but it is), because if you want to make an informed decision, the subject matter is vast, and to be fair, you need to delve deeply. Sure, its easy to find people who just dislike foreigners, their foreign ways… but these people have little but mistrust or just blatant bigotry as their motivation. That is NOT what this is about. It is about intelligent decent people weighing up the truth, evaluating the evidence for themselves, and their families, then making choices based on what they find. Unfortunately, finding intelligent decent people who want to actually look deep enough is hard work, if not near dam impossible. The few who do, well they are shot down, branded as racists, islamophobics, hate mongerers and so on. It seems that nowadays, most people automatically think that just because you want to discuss religion or ideology, to the point of asking questions about its place in our society, then you are a terrible person.
Yes, the topic of “Islam” is so big, given all we are seeing in the world today, I feel that no one wants to touch it. No one dares to look too closely. It is far easier to dismiss all with a glib “live and let live” comment, than to actually become involved. As I said before, the subject of Halal, well that will get a few “oh’s” and “ahhh’s” in New Zealand, but it will soon be yesterdays news I’m afraid.
As for a Q in NZ, well I would be interested in talking with you, but not on open forum.

Best would be if those Kiwis interested would write to inbox (at) qsocaus (dot) org and then we can perhaps tie something up over the next weeks. What's needed are just handfull of dedicated people with a bit of time and resources to get the ball rolling.

It's well explained! I still dont like halal slaughter! Its barbaric, we are in the 21st century that cruel practice has no place in the western world or anywhere else!

An excellent article clearly showing the differences between Halal and Kosher. As a Jew I have to seek out the Kosher food often imported from the USA or from Israel. Halal food on the other hand is widespread, manufactured here and we all have to pay the added costs thereof.

Got to make as much stink about this as possible.

Clear labeling would be great as i leave my specs at home sometimes.
This read was mentally stimulating.Thank you!

Dear Mr. Schumann,
The Kosher authorities in Australia differentiate between approved kosher products and kosher certified ones. Numerous Australian foods are naturally kosher and after an investigation by a chemist such a product will be listed in a kosher guide so Jews will know. These foods do not carry any label. As far as I know the company does not pay any fees for having its food approved. Certified kosher food is different in the sense that the company has a contract with the Kosher authority that it will not change any ingredients and will not change its equipment cleaning process unless approved prior to making this change ( cleansers and soaps may contain non-kosher ingredients). Manufacturers of certified kosher foods do pay a fee to be allowed to have a label on their kosher products. Jews who are very concerned about keeping kosher will only buy certified food whereas others will also buy approved foods. The extra cost to the manufacturer is passed on to the consumer, but as you said these foods are generally only available in shops owned and run by Jews so any consumer will know beforehand what they are getting into.

Some of the Coles shops in Melbourne have one isle dedicated to stocking kosher food. The kosher meat is not located anywhere near non-kosher meat, so ordinary consumers should not buy kosher meat inadvertently if they don't want to (and as you wrote kosher meat is very expensive compared to non-kosher meat, roughly triple the price).
The most important thing you neglected to mention is that the kosher certifying authorities are not involved with the companies providing any ingredients (these are investigated by the chemist at the site where the food is manufactured)nor do they care who transports the ingredients of the manufactured/harvested foods or the foods themselves.

Indeed as you wrote to declare food kosher is much more involved than halal. Just a few examples: As we are not permitted to eat any insects there are many foods we cannot eat, because the colouring agents used in those foods by the manufacturers is derived from insects. Certain additives and preservatives are also derived from prohibited sources. It should be clear by now that any food that is kosher is also halal, because our laws are much stricter. There is no way a Jew can make some food kosher by saying a blessing over it !!

Here in Tasmania we have to import meat, wine & cheese from Melbourne because these are not available in Tassie. We cannot buy kosher bread either, so all of us here, who keep kosher, make our own bread.
I would advise Muslims to finance their activities instead of expecting Aussie taxpayers to foot the bill.

Although my next comment has nothing to do with Halal it explains the difference in attitudes. Some years ago Muslims insisted that a swimming pool was to be built for them in Melbourne, so they could keep swimming activities segregated, i.e. women and men swim in different pools or at least cannot see each other. Jews have this law about segregation as well. However we just ask the local public swimming pool if we can rent the pool for an hour or so to let girls swim and some other time the same thing for boys. This is no different from other organisations renting a pool for some activity.

Thanks Ralf for the information including the link to the QWire Newsletter, highlighting the Halal Certification Fiasco. This article clearly exposes the deceitful Islamist tactics of Halal Certification the cost of which is passed down through the food chain. Allah's teaching in the Muslim Holy book indicates it is not required by Muslims themselves.
We have our tradition Christmas dinner with our adult children and their families. Over the last few years it been a real battle trying to get a roast of beef that's not Halal Certified. My wife and I had to drive around Perth Suburbs to find a butcher /supermarket that wasn't Halal Certified. This has never been a problem in the past. We also experienced the very same problem at Easter with Easter Eggs ad Hot cross buns. We shouldn't have to put up with this in Australia. It's quite obvious some sort of action needs to be taken urgently by our Government to prevent this deceitful practice eg. Halal Certification.

This is the clearest article I have read about Halal certfication and Kosher. I knew about the tax and the extreme cruelty with the Islamic slaughter houses but the rest was a surprise, although anything about those blighters would not surprise any person. I am happy the Australians are now waking up a little. We need to clean up our politicians as there are far too many of them of both sides being too apologetic and down right sucking up to Muslim groups. They should be ashamed of themselves. They know as well as we do what the aim of Islam is about, so one can only assume it is because of corruption and/or kick backs. There are now 14 Muslims in the Australian Parliament and it is way too many. One would be too many.

APATHY and it's close relatives, indifference and ignorance are exactly what Islam wants and preys upon. We must make an effort to inform those who don't know and challenge those who do know; the toughest cases are those who dismiss this info as 'Muslim hating' or 'extremist ravings'- a little info at a time for these, to avoid their cognitive bias.

I suggest keeping it concise- since my knowledge of the unholy Trinity of Islam [Koran, Hadith and Sira] is comprehensive the temptation is to overload the target. So I try to avoid this.

Long-winded postings make the reader glassy-eyed and eventually, bored. NO GOOD!

I strongly object to this so called multiculture society ++ any religious labels be it halal or kosher + sharia/halacha law etc! etc after all this is my country australia, the best in the whole world where all assimilate (if u get my drift Mr Schumann) by the by many of my jewish and muslim pals are liberal independant thinkers when it comes to religions etcetc. David

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This page contains a single entry by QWire published on December 31, 2014 3:04 PM.

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